MarkBee
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Well, this product looked great until I generated a sample template and checked for CSS validation...199 errors.
I can't be serious about creating websites with a tool that has this many errors in a basic code generation.
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MarkBee (again)
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I just noticed this in the product description:
Quote :Create perfectly correct, validated HTML and CSS that conform to Web standards.
How can they say this when a basic project contains 199 CSS validation errors?
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Marc Smith
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The errors you see are related to issues with IE.
If you have done anything with CSS at all, you know there are separate CSS files for many sites to account for the problems that IE6 and CSS standards have.
Not every site is or will be 100% compliant, ever.
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Marc Smith
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And just for the record, wordpress.org and wordpress.com, as well as amazon.com and many others do NOT validate CSS specs 100%.
Many sites will have the error:
Property doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in [css2, css3]
Meaing they are programming with the new CSS standards and are leaving the old standard behind. That is part of the problem with trying to build a site that is perfect across ALL browsers.
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MarkBee
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Well, I can validate tons of Joomla sites with commercial templates, and tons of other sites with zero errors. You're right, IE is garbage, but various sites are coded in ways that work around IE's issues and validate properly.
You say that not every site will be 100% compliant, yet I've seen quite a few sites validate as such.
You may have the luxury of not having to code sites for IE6, but for many of us, most of our visits come from that archaic browser. If other sites can be built to validate 100%, Artisteer sites should too...especially since they claim this.
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MarkBee
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To elaborate...
You say that many sites will validate with the one error you mentioned...that's a far cry from the 199 errors I see in a typical Artisteer site.
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Marc Smith
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MarkBee,
Joomla is not a "template creation" software. You are comparing apples to oranges.
Given the cost of Artisteer and what it does, I have no complaints. I code the IE6 CSS if needed and Artisteer plans, from what I understand, some fixes for this issue.
As far as sites that validate and don't validate, I'm not going to debate who does or doesn't validate properly. The biggest sites such as amazon.com don't validate properly and for specific issues related to IE6.
If you want to knock Artisteer, go right ahead, but it's not going to change what the product does, or the fact that coding for IE 6 and validating that CSS is not a small effort.
I am wondering, do you write CSS compliant code by hand? Do any of the products you currently use do it? I know SiteGrinder doesn't, neither does Dreamweaver. Show me a WYSIWYG program that does it and I'll stop defending Artisteer and give you your $50 myself.
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Marc Smith
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For the record:
joomla.org - errors (2)
amazon.com - errors (33)
wordpress.org - errors (47)
wordpress.com - errors (32)
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MarkBee
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Quote :Joomla is not a "template creation" software. You are comparing apples to oranges.
I know what Joomla is. My point is that I've seen dozens of Joomla and Drupal templates that validate properly. So I would expect a template from a template creation app to do the same, especially when it promises to.
If generating code is what Artisteer does, it should do it right. You're right, CSS is very cmplex, especially when IE is added to the mix. But other apps generate code without so many errors. This one should too.
Defend and enjoy Aristeer all you want...but when a product advertises "perfectly" compliant code and then I see 199 errors, I think that's a problem for anyone using this to create a serious website. You are welcome to keep your opinion that this is not a problem, but my opinion is that it is a BIG problem.
For the record:
Artisteer-generated template - errors (199)
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Marc Smith
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Tell me a software that DOES create a perfect CSS complaint template.
Dreamweaver? Nope.
SiteGrinder? Nope.
Photoshop? Nope.
They all CLAIM to as well. And you pay hundreds of dollars more.
I use HTMLPad to check and validate all my CSS after the fact and I fix what I need when I need.
The dozens of templates you have seen with Joomla and Drupal that validated are because they are HAND CODED and BUILT that way, not generated by a template creation software like Artisteer. I do it all the time.
If you are seriously a web designer or some sort of web professional, you *know* that there is no such thing as a template that comes "out of the box" CSS compliant. They ALL need to be tweaked. You also know that the argument that it should be 100% compliant is an intellectually dishonest argument, as NO product does it. None, not one...and many make the claim that they do.
Templates from TemplateMonster or any of the other high end professional template sites all need to be tweaked.
If the product is such a problem for you, then just don't use it. I have no issues with it, it does what Ineed, does it *well* and I know where the weaknesses are of all the products who compete with Artisteer, and believe me, Artisteer wins hands down
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Ben
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Even without being 'seriously a web designer or some sort of web professional' , Artisteer can quite easily make you templates you quickly tweak to be CSS validation. (Quick method here: http://www.artisteer.com/Default.aspx?post_id=99287&p=forum_post&forum_id=9).
Having overcome the CSS validation thingy (at least for WP), i think Artisteer is brilliant. Hopefully Joomla and Drupal capabilities are on the way sooner than later.
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MONA1980
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I just noticed this in the product description:
Quote :
Create perfectly correct, validated HTML and CSS that conform to Web standards.
How can they say this when a basic project contains 199 CSS validation errors?
https://delicious.com/basmagaber808
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REMAS
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Having overcome the CSS validation thingy (at least for WP), i think Artisteer is brilliant. Hopefully Joomla and Drupal capabilities are on the way sooner than later. http://www.stumbleupon.com/stumbler/basmagaber808 http://www.folkd.com/user/midomidi2013 http://en.community.dell.com/members/midomidi2013/ https://plus.google.com/communities/109011046140013495462?hl=ar http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSHBYcxG7-yfDAwWWBkH74w/about?view_as=public https://plus.google.com/u/0/105849939544865353293/about
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RASHA
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https://support.mozilla.org/ar/user/1037649 http://kenanaonline.com/users/smsmstar/posts/584466rup
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Anakyst
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<rant>
Along with the validity of Marc's 'passionate' input above, IE, FF, Safari, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Amazon - and others - really don't care too much about css standards and choose to wantonly ignore them when it suits them. Or, they just don't bother to update the requisite Browser code. [Oh, you want it to work? Sorry, not included in the retail price!]
Let's not even start to talk about 'security' and 'certificate issuers' - what a bigger joke! [ROFLMAO - or whatever the 'nacronym is...]
I note [in my reality] that it's mostly the 'client' who's 'complaining' about 'weird looking browser displays and then the poor [literally] website designer has to put in yet another 6 hours of free coding time... unaccounted for in the 'flat-rate' [lowball] website quote!
You think MS cares about how much time they've cost coders? You think most clients know anything about the way the internet works? You think Apple cared about fixing millions of 'broken' wireless TCP issues?
In the immortal words of Henry Ford:
"If I'd asked my customers what they wanted, they'd have said a faster horse!"
Solutions? Yes I have some suggestions but, then I'd be righteously mounting my moral high steed. And that would be outside the scope of this rant...
Thanks for being here :)
</rant>
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www
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Open Gmail start page (not logged), validate CSS and you get 86 validation errors. You are worrying to much.
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HelgaD
Artisteer Team
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Hi all!
Not sure where did you find 199 error in the Artisteer generated template. I've validated a simple Artisteer 4 Joomla template. The result was a few errors related to the "filter" property which is proprietary and as a result not w3c valid and a number of warnings related to vendor prefixes which are not w3c valid too but required for compatibility with old browsers.
So, not every error is an error actually.
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jrgweb
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@HelgaD - Take a look at the date when the post was written.
2008 !!! mona1980 was just more than likely spam!!
Artisteer has done extremely well with css issues since version 3.x
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RobR
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The "Templates" That artisteer includes with it should at least be error free...
But I get less errors when I do a new "blank template" that I do if I use a pre made one...
I have been using this program for years now, and I honestly still dont understand why there are any errors or even warnings when you use the program with zero changes.
At least make the New Project, blank be error free?
and the included templates would be nice too....
I dont think this is much to ask for, since if we Started off with Zero Errors, it is easy to figure out what We did to make them.
Please at least clean up the Blank & then the Supplied Templates for the next release.
Thank You,
a Long Time User & Lover of your program
Rob
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