Nick
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After quick testing, just 30 minutes, I made these observations:
The good:
- It seems that there were some work done in fixing the jquery problems. I have to do extensive testing to come to a conclusion.
- The typography and the controls pages will silent many of the critics.
- A way to control the positions in the header is huge, I need to better test it though.
- The facebook and twitter controls are welcomed additions.
The ugly:
- Poor Mac users... first you start getting viruses, now no Artisteer 4.x
- Still no support for e-commerce. How is that SDK kit working out for you now?
- The new responsive menu type (Expand On Click) works only if the root, is a "Separator" in the menu. If the root is an actual page, this will stop working, and become unreachable once you click on a submenu item. If it's a bug, fine, let's fix it, if it's done on purpose, it's stupid, very stupid.
- The bug of the search box in the header is STILL THERE !!! I reported this to support since 4.0 beta1, and it is not fixed yet. It's a matter of simply changing the z-index value for it. It is very easy to manually fix it, but this bug should have been fixed by now. How can this slip through the cracks over and over again? HOW??? So, if you have a search box in the header, and your menu is above the header, the subpages menu buttons are BEHIND the search box, rendering the sub menus useless.
Fast conclusions: If indeed the jquery problems are fixed, this is well worth to upgrade your subscription to get this version. Otherwise, this version offers very little to justify the upgrade price, unless of course you are a Dotnetnuke 7 user or a Joomla 3 user.
Is V4.1 perfect? Not even close, and there is no such thing as a perfect software. But it is certainly a step forward towards it, I would on one hand say good job, but on the other hand "is this the best you can come up in 3 months of development? - it's weak". Nevertheless, Artisteer WAS the best software for what it does, and it just got a little bit BETTER. Still the KING !
Looking forward in other's opinions and more importantly bug reports and if possible, how to manually overcome them.
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Nick
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P.S. The new pager and the new comments controls are huge too. 4.1 is looking better with every minute!
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Marco
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Hey Nick,
thx for your Feedback.
I´m testing myself at the Moment, and I have to say - it seems, that i will love the new version!
The Controls-Configurations are sensationell!
Comments: Woohooo! ;)
AND: I have to say, that 1 thing you said is not correct:
In the new version you can rightclick on e.g. the search-field and change the z-index! ;)))) You can put it to back or in front. I think this is a good solution for menu and searchfield-Problem!
aaaargh* luv the pagination-controls! ;))))
Artisteer - good work so far!
I´m going to upload the template soon and give more feedback
bR from Vienna!
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Nick
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Sending the search box in the back does not fix the problem. The bug is still there. The submenu items of the menu still go BEHIND the search box no matter what you do.
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Marco
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Not in my Case... The searchbox IS behind The submenuitems...?
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Nick
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Yes, I can push the searchbox behind/front other objects, like the sitename, slogan, etc... but the subpages stubbornly remain behind no matter what I do.
I have to manually edit the css file and change the z-index value. It only takes 30 seconds for me, but I can see someone who is not comfortable in messing with coding getting stuck.
It will get fixed sooner or later though, in the end, the developers know what they are doing, it's just a matter of time, even though this should have been fixed 3 months ago. That said, v4.1 looks better by the minute, best version yet - well worth the money.
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mwoffenden
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Well the 4.1 suggested designs are still not very good. They are pretty boxy and very plain!
It takes me about 12 cycles to get a design I can start to work with at all. 3.x cranked out lots of great designs!
Other than that not much has improved in this release for general web design tasks.
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mwoffenden
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Correction - I'd venture to say that the suggested designs are worse in 4.1. Anyone else notice this?
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Michel
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@mwoffenden.. They would be stupid to spend much time on the suggested designs. For me the features and stability is important. Suggested designs, hardly nobody is going to use, are just to generate ideas. At least this is my opinion. Be creative.
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Marco
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@ mwoffenden:
Why not do it yourself? The suggested Designs I NEVER used.
Start with "blank" Page...
So I agree with Michel: There are more IMPORTANT things for developers fo artisteer than "suggested designs"... sry.. 
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T
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Quote Marco:
There are more IMPORTANT things for developers fo artisteer than "suggested designs"... sry..
True that. I pity the foo...
...you know who you are and you know why.
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mwoffenden
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Michel, Marco...appreciate your comments, however I strongly disagree.
Getting a head start with a good solid design is key. It can get me 50 percent or more to the finish line.
And yes, version 3 did an amazing job of cranking out really nice designs in 5 seconds. I''ve saved many of them for re-use (most open fine in V4) and they are stunning.
This is a very valuable feature and one that, sadly, has deteriorated as V4 came along. However I can still open V3, create my starting design and them upgrade it to V4.
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James
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Quote mwoffenden:
And yes, version 3 did an amazing job of cranking out really nice designs in 5 seconds.
Musta had a different version of 3 than me.
Truth be told I never use suggest a design, I'm a real designer. I design in photoshop...
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mwoffenden
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Quote James:Truth be told I never use suggest a design
That's your choice. However, the designer chose to put "suggest design" in the product for a reason. In fact, the whole "suggest" concept is pervasive throughout the product.
I think it's great and it sets Artisteer apart from many other tools. It was and is a valuable part of the product. But it's gone downhill as the developers have focused on a variety of other things.
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Michel
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@James, If you use Photoshop, what are you doing on this forum? So if I use Photoshop I am a real designer?
This is the same as comparing Wordpress to Typo3. Thru web developers use Typo3 instead of cms’s like Joomla and Wordpress. Wordpress and Joomla are for the little hobbyists.
I totally disagree your statement. The visitor don’t care what kind of CMS is used, the tool that created the template or if the template is designed by a real designer or not.
Google and Facebook , the two most used networks in this world, have the 2 most simple templates out there. Why? The content counts. The visitor do not want to see highly advanced graphical technics. The visitor wants to find what he is looking for.
Try it yourself. Look at the bounce rate of a website with a very graphical template or the same website with a simple design. The difference is huge.
Still. Website owners do like to see the graphical. They pay for the corporate design. And because they do not know, they think it is the best for their business.
I know for sure, the only Photoshop that is used for the Google template, is maybe for the Google logo. And nothing else.
Clearly, mwoffenden use Artisteer in a way for him it is best. That is why Artisteer is great in what it is. The versatility is huge. And for this, lots of users think is the best tool for the job. I am one of them. I prefer the simple template without any graphical fireworks. This focus the visitor of my website on the content and in my case, also on the ads.
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T
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Quote Michel:.
Clearly, mwoffenden use Artisteer in a way for him it is best.
Lazy ass designer wanna be. Disgusting. 
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rogermaxrjs.com.br
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Quote Nick:
After quick testing, just 30 minutes, I made these observations:
The good:
- It seems that there were some work done in fixing the jquery problems. I have to do extensive testing to come to a conclusion.
- The typography and the controls pages will silent many of the critics.
- A way to control the positions in the header is huge, I need to better test it though.
- The facebook and twitter controls are welcomed additions.
The ugly:
- Poor Mac users... first you start getting viruses, now no Artisteer 4.x
- Still no support for e-commerce. How is that SDK kit working out for you now?
- The new responsive menu type (Expand On Click) works only if the root, is a "Separator" in the menu. If the root is an actual page, this will stop working, and become unreachable once you click on a submenu item. If it's a bug, fine, let's fix it, if it's done on purpose, it's stupid, very stupid.
- The bug of the search box in the header is STILL THERE !!! I reported this to support since 4.0 beta1, and it is not fixed yet. It's a matter of simply changing the z-index value for it. It is very easy to manually fix it, but this bug should have been fixed by now. How can this slip through the cracks over and over again? HOW??? So, if you have a search box in the header, and your menu is above the header, the subpages menu buttons are BEHIND the search box, rendering the sub menus useless.
Fast conclusions: If indeed the jquery problems are fixed, this is well worth to upgrade your subscription to get this version. Otherwise, this version offers very little to justify the upgrade price, unless of course you are a Dotnetnuke 7 user or a Joomla 3 user.
Is V4.1 perfect? Not even close, and there is no such thing as a perfect software. But it is certainly a step forward towards it, I would on one hand say good job, but on the other hand "is this the best you can come up in 3 months of development? - it's weak". Nevertheless, Artisteer WAS the best software for what it does, and it just got a little bit BETTER. Still the KING !
Looking forward in other's opinions and more importantly bug reports and if possible, how to manually overcome them.
_________________________________________________________
Let's wait for a more stable version, otherwise I will not upgrade, I have lost many jobs with simple mistakes ultimately cost dearly. But without a shadow dedúvidas is best, especially for me who do not understand programming, and other hrml.
rogermaxrjs 
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rogermaxrjs.com.br
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Well done Michel, I agree. I think we should emphasize the versatility of the program, as well as developers should focus on stability, security and some tools that people like U.S., for example will need, since I am totally ignorant of the creation without Artisteer and sometimes waste time on the Internet searching codes ready for implementation. The conclusion is that for me, despite some problems the ARTISTTER is fantastic and is the best tool. I'll wait a little more and upgrade to the new version.
A hug to everyone.
RJS - rogermaxrjs.com.br 
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Nick
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Yeah, I'm experiencing similar problems. The jquery problems that I had originally reported during Summer, still exist.
Well, to be more specific, some that were not working with 4.0 are now working, but some new ones that did not work with 4.0, are working with 4.1. Confused? So as the dev. team apparently too.
I am still testing things and trying to come up with some logical explanations. I noticed that the V4.1 templates are not using the latest version of jquery, but updating that did not fix the problem. I have a feeling it all has to do with something like that, your plugins and Artisteer using the same jquery versions.
As I said above, I'm still testing, but it's pretty frustrating. Very few people are talking about this problem, which is way more important than any of the IE problems (which is not Artisteer's fault btw), or the other few small bugs.
It seems that Artisteer sets the standards very low before releasing a new version, as far as this problem is concerned. For WordPress for example, if a jquery plugin is working with the latest version of WP + the default theme (twenty twelve currently), then that should be the standard. Some of the plugins that do function with that standard are not functioning with the Artisteer 4.x templates.
Again, this is strictly problems with jquery, which needs to be figured out.
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Captain F'ntastic
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Ok, not sure how it is for you, but I build intranet sites for a corp of 60,000+ employees. IE 8 is the standard, still going through with the upgrades to Win7 for the next few years, the cost to upgrade is in the millions. IE is not a small issue, and it also needs a patch. while you are on 4.1 I am still comfortable with 3.x, so basically my year of upgrades are nice but pointless in my case since i can't use any version upgrades since 3.1.
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Captain F'ntastic
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shut up troll. at least we have a life.
go to Greece.
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Nick
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@Captain F'antastic: Yes, you are in a different situation than mine. Older browsers and older computers are non issues for me.
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Michel
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According to W3 7% use IE8, 1% use IE7. With this info, for me it is important the core features of the template works on every browser. If some other not important features only works on the modern browsers, fine by me.
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NA
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What I loved about the new upgrade is the pages and comment feature but they just do not work. I designed and uploaded in blogger and they simply were not there at all. Then I uploaded into WordPress and the comment is there (5 times it just keeps repeating, the pages are just simple blue ugly links and it has messed the design up all together and the post were in separate boxes now they are long and on top of one another. I am going to downgrade I cant handle this.
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Nick
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On my end the comments and the new pagination work just fine with WordPress (tested with 3.5).
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PurpleEdge
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OK, how do I use the new position control???
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Noor
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I do not understand why its not working for me. Its very buggy (I know its beta but I was excited) and my once seperate boxes were even made into one long one and all padding was gone.
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Paula
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I just picked up a new puter (Windows 8). Was REALLY lookin' forward to playin' with Artisteer 4. In a nut-shell .... I'm #%&*@! Praise the Lord I use other programs. 
How do I get Artisteer 3 back????
What's going on with this??? Images not showing. Pages viewing in IE, Chrome and others like crap. i.e., not looking like the design.
Lucky me .... I get to run between two putters. (not). 
P.S. I happen to like "idea mode" (i.e. suggestion mode). I don't have to strain my brain as much. It helps me with color choosing, little touches and gets my creative brain flowing. (believe me I do customize each and every site.) Alas .... until this is resolved I'll need to use the other programs that I use. (big sigh)
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mwoffenden
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Quote Paula:
Pages viewing in IE, Chrome and others like crap. i.e., not looking like the design.
Maybe it's a Windows 8 issue? I have no plans to go near W8 as I'm quite happy w/W7.
Regarding Art-3, not sure if the developers offer the older version for download but you could ask in their support forum.
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shawn
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Quote Michel:
@mwoffenden.. They would be stupid to spend much time on the suggested designs. For me the features and stability is important. Suggested designs, hardly nobody is going to use, are just to generate ideas. At least this is my opinion. Be creative.
I think the starter design templates are VERY important. Would be great to see a marketplace for artisteer templates. Unfortunately, I don't like all of the tables and hard to edit elements in the design templates, but this is a very very important part of the product.
as for suggested design ideas while using the product, I find the idea of clicking a button to get random ideas pretty unprofessional. Love the idea of a wizard, but need better options to chose from rather than hit a button and pray....
Overall glad to see continued investment in the product and focus on themes rather than pages (although I love the idea of generating starter content, but unfortunately, the styled elements are inline and system does not generate css - that would be awesome!)
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