Raymee
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With a lot of people using IE 7 8 and 9, - need I say any more
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Raymee
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There are so many things that don't work on IE browsers that I do not think it will be sensible for me to use V4 as a development tool. While i personally don't use IE, a lot people including clients and clients' clients do. Telling them that the website will look one way in one browser but significantly different in IE8 and even more in IE7 won't wash.
Not working so far
Gradients in menu bar, menu items, and footer do no work in IE8 or below.
Background gradient does not work in IE8 or below,
Text Shadows do not work - IE9 or 8 or below
Cell layout fails in IE7
Transitions do not work in IE9 or below so slider is a waste of time.
The only way (for me) to solve the slider issue is to introduce an external slider - but this requires changes between <head> </head> since this can not be done within Artisteer - this ruins the whole concept of using the software as a CMS for a HTML website.
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JimmyB7
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Quote Raymee:
There are so many things that don't work on IE browsers that I do not think it will be sensible for me to use V4 as a development tool. While i personally don't use IE, a lot people including clients and clients' clients do. Telling them that the website will look one way in one browser but significantly different in IE8 and even more in IE7 won't wash.
Not working so far
Gradients in menu bar, menu items, and footer do no work in IE8 or below.
Background gradient does not work in IE8 or below,
Text Shadows do not work - IE9 or 8 or below
Cell layout fails in IE7
Transitions do not work in IE9 or below so slider is a waste of time.
The only way (for me) to solve the slider issue is to introduce an external slider - but this requires changes between <head> </head> since this can not be done within Artisteer - this ruins the whole concept of using the software as a CMS for a HTML website.
I am a "lifetime" user of IE and generally prefer it. I can verify Raymee's findings, and to say the least I am extremely frustrated with IE.
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Daviator
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Agreed. While I'm not a fan of IE, IE 8 is still the most popular browser currently in use.
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Ron
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IE may the the most popular but that isn't saying much. Firefox is more popular with software developers and website designers. "Most popular" does not equate to "the best".
Those who pick up the most viruses and hacks are on IE also, so that should tell you something.
I wouldn't judge Artisteer, or any other piece of software, by IE standards. I realize that it may be difficult to explain to some people that IE is not the best browser and some designers are forced to use it because of their clients, but that doesn't mean software developers should drop their standards just because of IE.
Just my opinion from 20 years of experience.
Ron
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Kris
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huh? As a web-developer you have to cater to ALL browsers. You can't just refuse to "drop your standards" (which in this case means NOT using standards) :-p
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Raymeee
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@Ron - I am not judging Artisteer - which I happen to think is great - I am just stating the obvious for me - that if it doesn't build in more graceful 'degrades' for IE (at least to 8) then due to the number of people using IE, whom I can't even contact never mind persuade to change, then it loses some of its usefulness to me.
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Tom
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Itdoesn't matter what the "smart" developers are using if one third of your site visitors are using IE.
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Ron
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@Raymeee - I understand. And you are correct. It's a shame that we can't tell people that there are better browsers out there besides IE. Ones that don't contain viruses. By letting IE set the standard, we are holding back the advancement of software, but then we all let Microsoft set the standard in the beginning, even though they didn't have the best products. I'm no fan of Apple but I do admire them for standing up to Microsoft.
@Kris and @Tom - I understand that developers do have to cater to those with other browsers out of economic necessity, but it wouldn't hurt to "educate" them to better products.
Ron
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sbooder
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Any software that is intended for use in browsers, should be at least backward compatible to 3 versions, this means with IE, it should work with IE 7, 8 & 9.
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Mike Allen
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Just tested an Art4 RC2 WP theme - in IE7 - any drop down menu with sub pages - has a big box around it - like a massive border. When I search the results I get back are over lapping if the the posts have the 'include title on page' option checked - if I select NO and instead stick another H1 in the post - the search results display fine.
in IE8 - none of the above happens - for me anyway, using IE9 (compatibility mode options)
I'm sure the Art Devs can sort this out in RC3 (other than I'm a happy man with Art4) - is there bugs list anywhere ?
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Raymee
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Yip drop down menus are - pretty poor in IE 7. -
I am not convinced developers will do anything in RC 3 re IE 9,8,7 - perhaps you can ask them.
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Raymee
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oh - Before you suggest I do it myself I already have.
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Elvis
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It is not Artisteer's fault that IE anything is not WC3 compliant. Stop blaming Artisteer and place the blame on Microsoft.
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SMaz
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IE7??? Are you kidding me? As of August 2012, IE7 accounts for 1.8% of total browser usage worldwide. All versions of IE account for just over 16%
http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_explorer.asp
Anyone that thinks a software developer should waste their time catering to less than 2% of the market is living in some fantasy world NOT the real world.
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-pekr-
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@Elvis - Artisteer team should support most widely used browsers, period.
@SMaz - I can show you different statistics, which simply give IE (in total) over 30% of marketshare. Your link seems to be only a measure of users visiting w3schools - hardly a good set of users, mostly web developers ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_web_browsers
I really think at least IE8 should be supported, and it is not supported for header transitions, which makes a feature hardly usable ...
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Raymee
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We are not really worried about 7 but we are concerned about 8 and 9.
Nobodies blaming Artisteer - we know whose fault it is - but muxh as we would like it - Microsoft are not going to back and rewrite 8 and then force users to change to the new 8. Hell even if they forced them to update to 9 it would be a blessing.
All we are saying is that Artisteer needs to deal with the reality of high IE usage. surely it they could include a slider which works on IE and include work arounds to allow some semblance of gradients on IE8.
or allow access to <head> </head> so we can incorporate our own solutions without have to wok outside of artisteer. At least that way maintenance and development of the website is made easier.
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Peter S
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Top 5 browsers from one of my sites. Stats from Google Analytics
1. Internet Explorer 916 45.53%
2. Safari 399 19.83%
3. Chrome 339 16.85%
4. Firefox 255 12.67%
5. Android Browser 65 3.23%
IE user versions:
1. 9.0 431 47.05%
2. 8.0 419 45.74%
3. 7.0 62 6.77%
4. 6.0 4 0.44%
While I prefer other browsers, it obvious regular folk are still quite happy to use IE as their primary browser. At least it's not 2001 still where IE had 95% market share.
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JimmyB7
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Quote Raymee:
or allow access to <head> </head> so we can incorporate our own solutions without have to wok outside of artisteer. At least that way maintenance and development of the website is made easier.
This is the feature I need the most. I'm constantly back and forth with Dreamweaver to modify the <head></head> area. Phooey!
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richard
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Quote :This is the feature I need the most. I'm constantly back and forth with Dreamweaver to modify the <head></head> area. Phooey!
For WP at least the header.php file is there in the Artisteer installation. You can augment it if you wish though you need to make sure you grant the required permissions or Windows 7 makes a side copy that you edit but Artisteer will still see the unedited version. Also, you need to restart Art to get it to pick up any changes as these are cached when running.
The way I look at Artisteer is that it's a starting point on which I can build the functions I need, which is exactly what Bud did when he built Templateer.
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Brian
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My stats match Peter S stats pretty close on a majority of my sites as well.
Those stats are pretty overwhelming and if Artisteer does not, or is not willing to cater to a majority of IE users that are out there. In my opinion, Artisteer would be mostly useless, or at least about 40% useless and that is way too much and I would think it would drastically hurt sales.
If I was a potential new customer and found out that this software does not work very well with IE, I would be gone and looking for something else in about 2 seconds. I really do not think Artisteer, as a company, would be that naive to let that happen? I guess time will tell.
Keep on sending in your IE problems though.
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Tom
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There only thing that matter to a client is how the site looks in their browser and how the site looks in their customers browser. When one of those fail the mark and is brought to their attention, It's a major problem 100% of the time - no matter what the stats account for or how much you bash Microsoft.
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Hank
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Why not just pop up a message on website saying IE7 and IE8 are very bad browsers, they no longer confirm to any internet standards so please upgrade to IE9, Chrome, FireFox or Safari.
IF - every website did this - people would soon get the message and hit the upgrade button.
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Adrianne
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I wrote a blog entry about this article. Well worth read for web designer/developer woes against IE. - http://www.sitepoint.com/how-to-stop-wasting-time-developing-for-internet-explorer/
Just sharing. 
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logo32design
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I think IE8 and IE9 is used mostly.
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Kris
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Nice entry Adrianne, didn't know about that update-script.
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Nick
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I agree with Kris. Good article Adrianne, so thanks for that.
I would further modify the script by Google to include IE7, but not IE8. Unfortunately, IE9 apparently can't run on Windows XP, so those who still use XP, are stuck with IE8.
The direct link to the script is at http://code.google.com/p/ie6-upgrade-warning/ for those who don't want to read the whole article.
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Dave B
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Quote :I would further modify the script by Google to include IE7, but not IE8.
Exactly, the XP thing is important. Why isn't there an IE7 warning already? What else do you need. IE6 is dead to me now. Anyone who uses it is seeing the whole Internet through a circus mirror anyway, so who cares about them? You can help them anymore. Who are these people anyway, Windows 98 still? Here are stats from my most visited site.
1. 8.0 58.60%
2. 9.0 21.70%
3. 7.0 15.87%
4. 6.0 3.81%
1. XP 43.70%
2. 7 37.44%
3. Vista 17.98%
4. Server 2003 0.49%
5. 2000 0.30%
6. 98 0.04%
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Sig Weber
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Well, it's not only that support for IE 7/8 has been deceased in Artisteer 4 for those of us building public facing Websites where you cannot force your (potential) customer to upgrade his/her Webbrowser or switch to an alternate operating system (like Windows 7 to use I 9/10).
But by deciding to only support HTML5 in Artisteer 4 it also forces me to stay away from it because I need to create XHTML compatible designs for Microsoft SharePoint 2010, which does not (and never will) support HTML5 due to many Internet Explorer 9/10 issues.
Too bad Artisteer 4 does not support exporting a design as Artisteer 3 template or at least export it as XHTML compatible design instead of hardcoding anything to HTML5 dropping XHTML completely.
Well, it looks like I've to reconsider if I renew my Artisteer subscription as it will not fit my requirements until Windows XP with IE 8 and SharePoint 2010 will disappear from the world of fortune 500 enterprise customers (and in case of SharePoint 2010 it is supported until 2020, so that'll take quite a while).
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Raymee
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I believe I had hair before V4 came out.
Not an improvement - more of an alternative for those who are happy to tell clients that the designer knows what best for them .
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