Mark Holland
|
Basically on the graphical front and design front i think Artisteer has gone as far as it can. There are over 1000's references to fluid layouts throughout this forum. However there is still no estimated date that a beta will be ready. I can do it by hand and most of the templates i build i mess around with anyway. I can now hand code the template with a fluid width so unless there is any news about a date i may as well spend the extra 20 minutes with my current version converting it to fluid than pay a ton of cash for the same program that i have already paid for.
I wonder just how many people will not join or will not renew because of this (i know 6 already)
Arty Team - No Excuses you charge a lot for your software and this should be a minimum requirement as it was requested for over a year ago.
I really do hope the Artisteer team take heed to what the people are asking we need fluid layouts.
|
| |
Pieter Cooreman
|
Mark, I understand you pov. But you are wrong about at least 1 thing: Artisteer is NOT expensive. I used to pay my designers 50 €/hour. That is about 70$. Can you image I would not pay 129$ for something like Artisteer? I can't.
But you are right about Artisteer not listening to these forums.
Who asked for the sidebars? Nobody did.
Who asked for the additional CSS for tables and images. Nobody did.
Who asked for a better color picker? Nobody did.
We did ask for vertical menus. But they - i'm sorry to say - suck.
We did ask for fluid width. This will never happen, for sure.
All in all, I liked v23 better. Overall, the templates generated by v23 looked better, less overloaded.
If that will stop me from using Artisteer, of course not.
Artisteer just needs some strong competition. It is still the only template generator that actually creates nice templates and it is extremely easy to use. But it looks like this program is at the end of a cycle. I do not expect major upgrades in the future anymore.
|
| |
Pieter Cooreman
|
One other note perhaps. The obvious next big thing for Artisteer is provide their own CMS. Many users asked for the possibility to edit the pages, the images and setup a basic sitemap. In this scenario, you do no longer need Wordpress, Joomla or any of the other supported CMS's.
THAT would be a great addition. And artisteer would no longer rely on CMS users alone. They would have an all-in-one CMS by themselves.
|
| |
Mark Holland
|
I can already build templates this just speeds things up so i guess the price is ok however i'm afraid i disagree about Artisteer CMS to it has taken joomla, wordpress and Drupal years to get all the mods and components in place most people will need at least one of these to run a website and how long would that take. There are enough platforms i think Artisteer could just extend there profile to stuff like whmcs,magento etc however until fluid comes i wouldn't bother doing anything.
Mark
|
| |
Pieter
|
Most users just need a way to modify the sitemap, the texts and include some images Mark... no need for overbloated CMS's. I am hosting 800+ of such websites. I use QuickerSite webCMS, a CMS that I made myself. QuickerSite can be limited to just that. That is what users like about it. You can test-drive QS on www.iseral.be. There are 400+ artisteer templates to start from.
|
| |
Chris
|
I think Artisteer is updating at a snail's pace. It is great software and VERY inexpensive. However, it seems to be at a brick wall and not moving forward. I think the updates in 2.4 are trivial at best. I would expect that with the amount of time it took to create 2.4 there would have at least been some MAJOR improvements.
What about having MULTI sidebars? Including a header and footer sidebar option? What about allowing a CUSTOM CSS file to be attached? (I requested this here -- http://www.artisteer.com/Default.aspx?post_id=122845&p=forum_post)
Maybe Artisteer should allow for a developer's community so people can assist them in creating new releases. Programmers, such as myself, would be willing to help improve Artisteer for free if it meant a free license.
I mean, come on guys -- there are probably a good 30+ features tach could be added in just a month of hard work. I agree, I love Artisteer but I will not renew. Not until I see some major changes.
|
| |
calsnoboarder
|
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The one thing that I've seen asked for is fluid width templates as an option, but I'm not a fan of how they look on a wide screen monitor. Given that 76% of users these days choose to look at a site at a resolution of higher than 1024x768 pixels, I can understand that some people would like variable width templates, but some websites look downright ugly when stretched across a screen.
I would imagine that adding variable width functionality wouldn't be overly difficult (and as a code monkey, changing the artisteer templates into variable width isn't all that difficult), but I can't really see the value of adding that output functionality to artisteer tbh.
|
| |
calsnoboarder
|
I picked five websites in my bookmarks...
http://www.espn.com
http://netscape.aol.com/
http://www.netflix.com
http://www.fancast.com
http://www.facebook.com
NOT ONE of them is variable width. All of these sites have also consistently received accolades for their simple, elegant, easy-to-use design. Something to think about when you start to request variable widths...
Again though... I know that some people prefer variable width templates... but not everyone shares your opinion.
|
| |
Adeptris
|
I agree with Chris more interaction between Artisteer and their Customers is needed, information on direction is also needed now, because there are several major release changes in the different CMS's due very shortly.
I am worried that there is no roadmap for WordPress 3.00, this has a different navigation menu structure, there is nothing on this website to make me feel comfortable that Artisteer are on top of this and ready to support both pages and menu functions for legacy WordPress installs that have different calls.
The latest release has not been discussed with the customers, and has broken some of the changes many of us have done to the generated templates, like an additional 320 x 240 sidebar above the two standard sidebars, no-one has been able to fix this and many tutorials that would have helped promote Artisteer are broken or no longer correct.
Post and Page Thumbnails have been supported since WordPress 2.7, now we are on 2.9 and this feature is still not standard, the themes out there now come with support for widgetized footers, slideshows, galleries, we need more standard custom options like changing the theme header graphics, and a way to include some of these customisations in our generated Artisteer themes.
I purchased the full package but only needed the Home edition, I thought the product was worth the money, I am paid up until October but I am watching the other frameworks and products, but I would pay more for an Artisteer developer edition that had more options "out the box".
David 
|
| |
Adeptris
|
Quote calsnoboarder:
Everyone is entitled to an opinion. The one thing that I've seen asked for is fluid width templates as an option, but I'm not a fan of how they look on a wide screen monitor.
I agree that some headers and content needs fixed width, when using thumbnails for posts, and multi column edits, they would have to go back to fixed pixels for the sidebars.
However a template should work on any resolution from 1024, and some themes and content would be 'OK' at wider resolutions, an option is to make the theme semi-fluid with minimum and maximum pixels this might be a more controled and better option.
David
|
| |
Dave Porter
|
Just as an aside - And I don't expect big things, but has anyone notice that Dreamweaver CS5 has support for authoring CMS's
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Quote:
Enjoy authoring and testing support for content management system frameworks like WordPress, Joomla!, and Drupal.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Due next month !
cheers Dave
|
| |
Adeptris
|
Just had a look at CS5 but it is three times the cost of Artisteer, I wonder if it will clash with the release of WordPress version 3.0 and be out of date from day one, worth evaluating when it is released in May.
I really want Artisteer to step up to the plate with a premium product!
David 
|
| |
Mark Holland
|
Artisteer has the other problem of Joomla 1.6 as will as WP3 on the way and this will add as another excuse to not put back fluid development.
|
| |
Pieter Cooreman
|
There is no way Artisteer will stay in sync with all the different CMS they currently support. Open Source CMS are evolving fast and Artisteer cannot keep on following all of them. BTW, from all CMS's they support only Joomla and Wordpress seem to do well. The others barely have users (I can tell from the forum-activity on this site). Most Drupal users simply laugh when you mention Artisteer. Check their forums.
That is why I keep thinking there must be another way: build a CMS for Artisteer templates and not the other way around.
I more or less did that with QuickerSite. I added support for Artisteer templates in March 2009. That was Artisteer 2.0. We needed some changes over the year, but they were minor. QuickerSite now works fine with Artisteer templates generated between v20 and v24.
How long would it take to put together a brand new CMS that basically does nothing but:
-manage the sitemap (the menus - some recursive functions do the trick)
-edit texts and upload images (any wysiwyg editor can handle this)
-edit the header/slogan/banner/footer sections (some dumb text-fields)
-a newsletter signup/search capacity (not really needed to get started)
???
For an experienced developer that would take 2 or 3 days.
Think about that. Again, most users do not need anything else. Since Artisteer has no plans to add support for editing texts and adding pages, this CMS might be a hit from day 1. And if it's done in a smart way, you can even add support for fluid width and add your own stylesheets, etc... in the CMS. I did that for QuickerSite.
Get in touch in case you like to discuss this and eventually start developing this new CMS: info@quickersite.com
|
| |
Justin Phillips
|
Frankly this product is pretty amazing and for the price I challenge you guys to find something that comes even close to its ease of use and functionality.
I have managed software projects for years and I must disagree with your assessment of the frequency and significance of the updates provided by the Artisteer team. The features they add must work for all of the platforms they support and that is not a trivial thing. The frequency of updates and the value of those changes have been pretty good if you compare it to any other proprietary software package. How often does MS add features to MS Word (once every two to three years and then they patch if for the next two years)?
Any features they have not added are not likely to be announced until they are pretty darn sure they can bring them to market successfully. They may be working on the very functionality you want but until it is proven in their development environment they are not going to let us know it is a possibility. There are a number of product features I would love to see, variable width is not one of them, but I will not be complaining about the product just because their product management team does not include them in the next revision.
I am not too worried about the changes to that will be coming in the CMS packages they support. I think we will find that they are on top of this. If not they will lose their market share to someone who is and since they are really the first in this market that would not be a good business decision.
I for one think the Artisteer team is doing a great job at a difficult task. If this were easy there would be a lot of products doing this.
|
| |
Thom
|
Artisteer is not a puppy. You can't train it to do what you want. It's a piece of software that is setting the benchmark in its space.
Artisteer is meeting the needs of a wide range of users, who are using many different open source CMS frameworks. If you are not one of the people for whom it is meeting the needs for, find another product.
If you've never used Artisteer before, and think it might meet your needs, please ignore the asinine exhortations in the previous posts and try it out. If it meets your needs, buy it. If it doesn't, look for another product.
If you're looking for something to train, talk to, and build a warm fuzzy relationship, then get a puppy.
|
| |
d00d
|
I understand what you're saying, Thom, and agree with you 99%. I'd still like to add, though, that one of the previous posters, Adeptris, has contributed more to the Artisteer project than anyone but the developers, and his comments should be taken into serious consideration.
|
| |
Node-0
|
What can I say but, "We asked you for improvements, We BEGGED for CSS customization options, We demanded layout and menu flexibility."
Then adobe came along and wrapped all that functionality into Dreamweaver CS5
Now here's the rub, I'm actually not code phobic, I can tear into php and css and
even js to get my work done, and I'm using an ad-hoc collection of tools to accomplish this.
HAVE YOU SEEN THE NEW FEATURES IN DW CS5 for cms?
It can scan entire site structs, and do recursive pattern matching across all files in the site!
All this with a simple ftp account in the setup!
No more wrenching in firebug only to go file exploring for 5 minutes just to save my changes!
Do you know how much Dreamweaver CS5 costs? It's $399
I'v already downloaded it and am running it through my client's sites to see how well it can "weave" the code.
This is for you guys at extensoft, "Time to make a decision".
You EITHER have to compete with the cms options of Dreamweaver and bring
COMPELLING NEW FEATURES, in order to prevent your web savvy userbase from
abandoning artisteer
OR
You have to give up the ghost in the advanced features category. This means you add support for "XYZ" cms and focus on more and more novice level features like "slideshows" and "animated effects", you'll basically be catering to a very narrowly focused userbase.
That won't want to pay very much for your product and will be infantile in it's demands.
Us advanced users tried to tell you, we repeatedly tried to tell you what would help us stay around and help you evolve.
I don't envy your situation. Good luck you guys/gals, I hope you figure out how not to be relegated to the discount bin of the windows world.
Honestly, I don't think you'll compete with CS5, this is Adobe we're talking about here, not some upstart rival which means we're either going to see extensoft become heroically innovative and bring amazing features to artisteer (and please for everyone's sake, rename it to something that doesn't induce giggles and smirks among other developers) or you're going to essentially become a one trick pony for one trick minded users.
I hope you enjoy it.
|
| |
Pieter Cooreman
|
Talking about the web-savvy userbase of Artisteer: i think it will always be thin. That may even be the point of this software. They focus on dummy users. That is not necessarely stupid from business pov.
Gary and Dave (the 2 moderators of these forums so to speak) are replying to these dummy users. They must be very nice chaps. No irony.
Anyway, you made me very curious about DreamWeaver CS5.
JQuery would be a very nice platform to adopt. Imagine what you could do with menus, image galleries, etc. And you are free to use a jQuery project in commercial projects as long as the copyright header is left intact. No big deal I think.
|
| |
d00d
|
I'm not understanding the CS5 comparison. DreamWeaver CS5 is hardly different from CS4. In fact, its WordPress support isn't as good as CS4 in tandem with ThemeDreamer.
|
| |
Skippy
|
Sure would love to know how to speed this up. 2.4 is bloated to the point of un-usability from a speed perspective without any really valuable features to justify the death of the little speed it had. I tried all I know to optimize this. Cheap? Well, the only real solution is to spend an extra $50 a month on a dedicated virtual server to have any chance of a useable site. Un-real, now I have to buy templates and rebuild my sites. What a waste of time and money. I am waiting for Artisteer to provide an explanation or a solution or a refund.
|
| |
Jack
|
My Artisteer created themes are nice and fast and I'm not running on a dedicated server.
|
| |
Garry
|
@ Skippy,
You should decrease the number of images and their size used in your template and you'll not face any issue even on shared server.
|
| |
Dave Porter
|
@ Skippy,
Might be useful to send us a URL and we may be able to check it out and give more feedback.
cheers Dave
|
| |
Tuomas Leppänen
|
Artisteer is definately worth that low amount of money they ask for it. I'm also messing my templates by hand (Wordpress and basic). Artisteer just saves me a lot of time for base work. Fluid widths are just a bonus.
So far artisteer has paid itself back about 40 times during last 6 months. So is artisteer worth it? Yes.
Though user content library would be damn much needed. Four or so flash files is just silly...
|
| |
neil t
|
Artisteer was not meant to be all things to all people.
It has it's own niche - it's own market, and if you have outgrown it's capabilities, then move on to something else.
Personally, I don't give a rat's a** about vertical menus or fluid widths. You can do much more more quickly with static widths, and, frankly, it just adds another variable to all the existing reasons why a site doesn't look the same on all platforms. As for vertical menus - well, the kindest thing I can say about them is that they are simply butt-ugly.
I like Artisteer for 2 main reasons - First, it's ability to let you play with all the various controls and options, and secondly, it's ability to give you a functional site when you don't have time to play!
For the price, I think it's a great buy...
|
| |
2ninerniner2
|
@Node-O
So why are you still here and not in the CS5 DW forum? 
@skippy
What "server planet" are you hosting with I have a few WP 3.0 installs and "more than a few" Joomla! installs ALL with Artisteer themes/templates that:
- validate 3x3 with W3C.org
- load and operate just fine (and they are all on Go Daddy, for crying out loud!!!) 
|
| |
Ian Shere
|
@2ninerniner2.. <nods in agreement> You gotta wonder if they actuaslly do any work, or are just pretending to be designers, but spending there days whining about what they can't make work!
How's the flying? 
|
| |
Markus
|
I totally understand where Skippy is coming from. When you browse your Wordpress sites with AOL it is very slow!
|
| |
2ninerniner2
|
Quote Ian Shere:
How's the flying?
Sadly, not well ... haven't been up in a number of years.
|
| |