Vertical menus should work like the top menu.


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Author Message
Nick

Posted: 2/20/2010
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What are your thoughts on this issue?

If you have Sub-pages in a top menu item, the sub-menu items are being displayed with a mouseover. No clicking is needed.

However, if the vertical menus have sub-pages, we need to click on them to open. And if the sub-items have more levels, we have to do some more clicking.

Wouldn't be better if the vertical menus work like the top menus, to open the sub-menu items with a mouseover as oppose to clicking and clicking just to see the underlying items?

Any thoughts, one way or another? Most well done web sites that I'm seeing (not Artisteer), that have vertical menus, open with a mouseover, so why can't we. It should be a simple Javascript doing this, just like the top horizontal menu.
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/21/2010
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Nick, exactly. It makes no sense you have to RELOAD the page before the underlying menu items are visible. This will confuse visitors.

if Artisteer wants to be best, they HAVE to reconsider how the vertical menu works.
 
Nick

Posted: 2/21/2010
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I'm glad to find out, I'm not the only one with this...
 
Karl

Posted: 2/21/2010
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I agree with Nick and Pieter. It makes no sense to require a click on a menu item in order to find out if there are sub pages. It would definitely cause site visitor confusion and I would bet that some pages would not be visited. Top menus don't work like that in any of the Artisteer versions.

 
Steve

Posted: 2/21/2010
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I agree with Nick. This should be the way the verticle menu works.

I would suggest you make that recommendation to Artisteer!

Also, I would like to have the option to make a top menu item non-clickable if there are submenu items listed.
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/21/2010
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Quote :
Also, I would like to have the option to make a top menu item non-clickable if there are submenu items listed.


I agree! That is how the horizontal menus always worked. Clicking this type of menu-items should open up the subitems, WITHOUT page reloads... There are dozens of <ul>-based DHTML JavaScript menus doing it this way... I really would love to see this behaviour in the Artisteer vertical menus.
 
blue sky

Posted: 2/21/2010
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I think the whole point of Artiseer is to avoid JS menus. If you want that kind of funtionality you will need to add an appropriate JS menu.

I do agree with the click to see sub-menu tho, should really be able just to mouseover as in horizontal menu
 
Bob

Posted: 2/21/2010
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I'd be really disappointed if this was the final version. The whole point of Artisteer is to produce cool and groovy templates. Thr current vertical menus just look clunky and counter-intuitive.

Bob
 
Steve

Posted: 2/22/2010
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I disagree with Blue Sky,

The "whole point of Artisteer" is NOT to aviod JS menus but instead is to provide a useful product for non-technical people to develop website themes and templates.

Thus, a simple check box to allow the javascript to be inserted that would provide the fuctionality of non-clickable top level menu items in an Artisteer website would only give a user the option to incude it if he thought it was necessary.

Of course, not checking the box would still allow the savy user to install whatever JS he wished.

The best of both worlds.
 
blue sky

Posted: 2/22/2010
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Steve - are you suggesting that you can't install JS on artiseer templates?

I agree with what you say tho but still think that Artiseer is trying to avoid JS menus and use css instead. Problem is with the vertical menus as they do look clunky
 
Doc

Posted: 2/22/2010
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i totally agree with this post and related comment. this isn't just another special fx but USABILITY. so, i want to share/post this:

<CUT> On the Web, usability is a necessary condition for survival. If a website is difficult to use, PEOPLE LEAVE. If the homepage fails to clearly state what a company offers and what users can do on the site, PEOPLE LEAVE. If users get lost on a website, they LEAVE. If a website's information is hard to read or doesn't answer users' key questions, they LEAVE.<CUT>
this came from http://www.useit.com/ by the guru Jacob Nielsen

in short i think artisteer team is smart enough to understand this way are right and useful way to improve their great application.

this just my 2 cents.... ;-D
Doc
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/22/2010
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Just to make things clear: a good working vertical menu looks like this: http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/slide_fly.html (i don't like the colors as such, but the menu works fine) - NO JS!

Another example can be found on http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/flyoutt.html - NO JS!

THE reference for both vertical and horizontal menus is http://www.cssplay.co.uk/menus/. I suggest Artisteer takes a look at some of the vertical - NO JS - menus to be found there. None of them require a page to be reloaded to make underlying items visible.

That is point of a menu... Not click it, but HOVER it to browse a site.

 
Steve

Posted: 2/22/2010
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Blue Sky,

I did not suggest that I "can't install JS on artiseer templates." You did. Unfortunately, it is a common tactic to accuse someone of not being as smart as you when someone corrects your obviously incorrect assumptions.

All I did suggest was that Artisteer should provide its users with simple solutions to accomplish what they clearly want to accomplish - nothing more and nothing less.
 
Blue Sky

Posted: 2/23/2010
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Thanks Steve,

Never intsended for a moment to suggest that you could not install JS. Really sorry that it came across like that! What I meant was "does the Artiseer template somehow prevent me from installing js"

I think it is clear that it cannot.

For my part if I want a really nice menu then have to drop in some JS but I would be much more comfortable with a CSS solution and agree with Pieter, it is not difficult to find great examples.

What I can't understamd is why Artiseer chose this "clunky" solution and not something more in keeping with what is truly an excellent product.
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/23/2010
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Another very popular (pure CSS) vertical slidemenu is http://www.dynamicdrive.com/style/csslibrary/item/nested_side_bar_menu/

This menu has the big advantage that you can easily have 3 to 4 levels, without the need to reduce font-sizes in in 3rd and 4th level as is the case in the Artisteer vmenu

It works fine in RTL mode as well.
 
sjones

Posted: 2/25/2010
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and I was thinking that the vertical menu could also be useful as a sitemap at the bottom. But it's a bit quirky in that regard.
 
-pekr-

Posted: 2/26/2010
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I would like to warn against turning vertical menu to the pop-up menu form! This is totally wrong concept, and any person suggesting it has no clue about UI usability :-)

Here's correctly working JS menu for me - http://www.jablunkovsko.cz/index.php?jaz=cs - it can be greatly configured re - collapsing of categories
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/26/2010
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@ pekr: http://www.jablunkovsko.cz/index.php?jaz=cs is a very good example. I also like this. No pagereloads to see underlying menu items. That's all we ask for here I think.
 
bikeman

Posted: 2/27/2010
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For those interested in latest windows beta (Artisteer.2.4.0.24559) vert menus submenus are not working in IE6 and Windows Safari 4.

Submenus are always expended in IE6
Submenus do not popout in Safari.
 
DC

Posted: 2/27/2010
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For what it's worth, we've been using JQuery Superfish menus with Artisteer templates, it's a very nice CSS/JS menu system (uses JS for effects, and degrades to pure CSS in older browsers, plays well with older browsers.)

I think they have the right idea here in not imposing use of a library like JQuery on those who don't want it, but that level of performance seems the ideal to me.

As a side note, for anyone implementing this kind of menu on their own, be aware that the side blocks in Artisteer have overflow set to hidden by default, so any flyout menus in blocks will look cutoff if you don't take this into account (I thought at first that it was a z-index issue and wasted an embarassing bit of time...)

David
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 2/28/2010
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In QuickerSite, we always used this type of vertical flyout menu:

http://www.quickersite.com/r/vmenu

These menus have several advantages over the vmenu by Artisteer:
1. Longer menu items are not floating into the main article
2. There is a flyout effect showing all underlying items without pagereload
3. A visual clue for items with subitems.
4. It works fine on all browsers

We - at QuickerSite - had high hopes the Artisteer vmenu would have been an alternative for our own vmenu. But they aren't. For now at least...
 
Steven Webster

Posted: 2/28/2010
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Just to chime in on this...ideally Artisteer will offer multiple menu options in the future. I would like to see vertical accordion, vertical flyout, mega menus, etc. It would be terrific to have options not only on how it looks - but also how it renders built into Artisteer.

That said - I think this inital attempt as vertical menus is a good first step. Generally speaking I hand code the Artisteer output. As long as the base menu CSS is there it's relatively easy to apply another menu concept to the nav.

This said - since nav is such an important part of good web design - the more options the better.

 
Steve

Posted: 3/1/2010
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I think Artisteer should look at the Woo themes menu that will be incorporated in Wordpress 3.0 due to be released in May of this year. It looks awesome and has a widget to include menus in a sidebar.

You can read about the Woo theme menu at the below link:
http://www.woothemes.com/2010/01/the-awesome-custom-woo-navigation/
 
Cecilia

Posted: 3/5/2010
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As a non IT-person I was overjoyed to find Artisteer, but regarding the vertical menu I am as disappointed as many of you are. Since I absolutely do not accept a "clicking menu", I am unsure how to proceed.

Will it be possible for a developer fix the menu for me, using your recommended solutions? (I will anyway get help with some other joomla-bits and pieces that are beyond me) Would he or she need the Artisteer program in order to do it? How long would it take for someone fluent in JS, CSS or both to get it right...?

Thankful for any ideas
 
ockert

Posted: 4/4/2010
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add this to the css file. the menu item will expand on hover

ul.art-vmenu li:hover, ul.art-vmenu li:hover ul, ul.art-vmenu li:hover ul, ul.art-vmenu li:hover ul li
{
display:block;
}
 
Pieter Cooreman

Posted: 4/4/2010
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works fine! except in Google Chrome. Very simple trick. Thanks ockert!

What css would it take to make the underlying menus to flyout at the right?
 
TNTS

Posted: 4/7/2010
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probably a stupid question, but how do i get the vertical menu working? I know for the top menu, you have to change the target position to _nav and at user3. What about vertical menus?
 
Nick

Posted: 4/7/2010
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@ TNTS: It depends on the platform. If html, look at the index.html, it's an unordered list with some Artistter classes in them. The horizontal menus start with art-menu, and the vertical menus with art-vmenu.

I have a feeling you are talking about Joomla or Drupal, so if you don't get an answer here, post your question in that specific forum.
 
Rich

Posted: 4/9/2010
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I totally agree that Artisteer needs more options for the vertical menu. Hopefully they will add more. I like the idea of having a flyout menu like the horizontal. It is cleaner and more user friendly. For the technically impaired like myself, having this type of option built in is a godsend. I'm not familar with CSS or java. I did attempt to insert the code that Ockert offered but could not place it in the correct place.

Artisteer programmers: Please add more options to the vertical menu :-D
 
Nat Mavro

Posted: 10/24/2010
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Ockert can you tell us where to insert that code?I can't make it work
 
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