jermey
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I'm actually waiting on purchasing the product due to the fact the templates won't run correctly in IE 6 causing lock ups, and slow performance. This seems to be a issue with everyone using the product as well.<br><br>
I'm aware it's a outdated browser, but doing research ALOT of people still use it, and refuse or don't care about upgrading. Trying to force a person to upgrade to view just your site doesn't make any sense either. They will just leave any never return same can go for as locking up the browser or slow performance. Most users will refuse to wait more then 10 secs for a page to load, before closing it.<br><br>
I'm a huge firefox fan boy, but I'm also aware of what still out there, and what research has proven in the web design market.<br> <br>
Please correct this issue, cause I love the product!
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Marc Smith
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Jeremey,
All of the data that is out there points against developing any kind of site that "bends to" the needs IE6 has. Every Fortune 500 company builds their sites to the widest user base and the browsers being used.
IE6 is not scheduled to End Of Life (EOL) until July 2010 when Windows XP officially gets it's EOL , however, doing any research at all will tell you that no credible design house or web development group looks at IE6 when they develop their sites.
Microsoft EOL page
http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifesupsps/
The ONLY reason IE6 is still support at all is because you can still get Windows XP systems, although someone buying an XP system now is a 'sophisticated' user who won't be using IE6 anyway.
While it would be 'nice' to support IE6, I just don't see Artisteer making any significant changes to support a 12% piece of the internet pie, especially when that 12% is probably not going to Web 2.0 websites with any great regularity.
Just my opinion.
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Jermey
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Well I know the lack of this will not all me to purchase the products, most reasearchs says close 20% are still using 6. That is just too many people that can't access your web site, it's unaccecptible.
The separate spreadsheet I thought is a great idea, all it needs is a few things touched up so these will load with IE 6. As I stated in my previous post I'm aware the browser is outdated, but the amount of users still using it even is 12% can be costly if your web site is running off advertisments or various other things that require every hit you can get. This could be very costly. 12% off your paycheck doesn't sound too great eh?
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Jermey
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Excuse all the type o's lol.
Note to self... read before hitting send!
But I think it's a feature worth putting the effort in.. there arleady a sytlesheet for IE 6 why not just produce a hot fix for that. Would it really require too much effort?
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Marc Smith
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I have no idea if a fix is in the works or under consideration. I'm not affiliated with Artisteer. I'm just a design pro who hangs out here.
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Jermey
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I'm aware of that Just speaking in general if that person does decide to check the thread out. We'll see I guess.
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Jermey
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Not sure if this will help, but I notice the loading of images seems to be what's locking it up..
LINK : http://www.twinhelix.com/css/iepngfix/
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Marc Smith
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Well, IE does have a render engine that "waits" for certain contents to be completely downloaded before it will put the page up.
Some images load in groups, others individually. CSS plays a part as well.
Basically IE6 was never designed to handle the CSS and Web2.0 standards that are currently used.
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Jermey
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References:
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=104331&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=103779&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=101677&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=101524&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=101809&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=99575&p=forum_post
http://www.artisteer.com/?post_id=99573&p=forum_post
Just a sample of whats being discussed in the forums about IE 6 support. Going from this I think the demand for supporting IE 6 is high.
Yes I understand web 2.0 standards, and why IE6 will have issues, but I think browser compatibility is still very important. As do many other web developers, and marketing experts.
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jermey
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In the mean time are there any fixes I could try to repair the page? I've read there JavaScript fixes for PNG rendering issues in IE 6 any that someone knows of here that will stop the freezing with Artisteer templates?
Can the CSS be repaired?
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Jack
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IE6 support is crucial and no credible web designer would ever make a website that doesn't support it. Huge numbers people use it. Whilst it is a terrible pain, it is also a fact.
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Heiner
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 Auch in Good old Germany bestehen die Probleme mit dem IE 6. Konnten diese noch nicht mit dem neuen update von artisteer 2.1 behoben werden? Gibt es irgendwelche anderen Lösungen?
Merkwürdig: Mit Artisteer 1 gab es diese Schwierigkeiten nicht.
Gruß Heiner
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Jermey
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I agree Jack, if your doing any form of advertising campaigns it highly important. I just don't agree with people saying it's not a issue. Even if some design features have to be removed for it to run in IE 6 I feel it's acceptable, cause you can allow those features to only be removed in IE 6 with code I assume. Love to hear something from the Artisteer team this seems to be a very hot topic with no responses.
Translation: German » English
Even in good old Germany, the problems with IE 6th Could this not yet with the new update of artisteer 2.1 solved? Are there any other solutions?
Merkw? Rdig: With Artisteer 1, there were no such difficulties.
Gru? Heiner
Quote Heiner:
Auch in Good old Germany bestehen die Probleme mit dem IE 6. Konnten diese noch nicht mit dem neuen update von artisteer 2.1 behoben werden? Gibt es irgendwelche anderen Lösungen?
Merkwürdig: Mit Artisteer 1 gab es diese Schwierigkeiten nicht.
Gruß Heiner
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Hils
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Quote Marc Smith:
All of the data that is out there points against developing any kind of site that "bends to" the needs IE6 has.
Hello Marc
Do you realise that IE7 does not run on Win2K and that, because of the cost, many smaller businesses did not upgrade to XP? Win2k does the job they need, it's a good solid system that works and I use it myself on one machine. So supporting IE6 is imperative for many visitors.
I am not loving myself for saying this, as a coder, but it is a fact we have to take into account.
Hils
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Artisteer
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Actually we are not aware of any specific issues with IE6.
All IE6 related problems reported to our support team were resolved by the customers. They were not related to Artisteer. Usually content was messed up, while couple people had an old and corrupted IE6 installation that they needed to update or reinstall. No known IE6 issues with Artisteer so far.
Please note that most problems are individual and there is no need to assume that if you have a problem then it is related to IE6 or that everyone else has the same problem. Allow someone to take a look at your individual issue and help you rather than venting, guessing and assuming.
Thank you,
Paul Hudson
Artisteer Team
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Nitish
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In one sentence, you destroyed many of the positive feelings I felt about Artisteer until now, Paul Hudson.
Customers may be wrong, customers may vent, customers may guess and customers may assume. If you want a million customers, you will have a million opinions being expressed about your product. And you provided a forum for that.
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Pablo
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Quote Nitish:
In one sentence, you destroyed many of the positive feelings I felt about Artisteer until now, Paul Hudson.
Customers may be wrong, customers may vent, customers may guess and customers may assume. If you want a million customers, you will have a million opinions being expressed about your product. And you provided a forum for that.
Great Nitish, I think all people here agree with you.
Paul Hudson repeat the same post above many times in this forum.
No work, no solution for this matter, just the same answer all the time.
I think is very important let the Artistee Staff know the following:
Create a theme and save in two formats:
a) Exported to a simple HTML page
b) Exported to a Joomla Template
So... open both with Internet Explorer 6 and you will see:
a) Perfect !!!!!
b) Bad
How can be the theme perfect when exported to a simple html page and bad layout in Joomla theme ?
I have no doubt, if can be perfect in HTML format can be in Joomla Theme too. Just a little effort to solve it instead to repeat the same negative post all the time. This software isn't a cheap program, we pay more than 100 dollars for it.
pablo
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annoyed
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Quote :
Create a theme and save in two formats:
a) Exported to a simple HTML page
b) Exported to a Joomla Template
So... open both with Internet Explorer 6 and you will see:
a) Perfect !!!!!
b) Bad
How can be the theme perfect when exported to a simple html page and bad layout in Joomla theme ?
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Annoyed
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Seriously, people using this software need to get smart.
Comparing HTML output to Joomla is just the dumbest thing ever. They aren;'t even close, for many reasons, not just how Joomla works in IE 6 buyt the framework behind it.
If you are going to knock a piece of software, at least don't show how stupid you are by doing it with incorrect comparisons and facts.
IE 6 is still out there, but it's not CSS saavy at all, and all relevant design and standards that are being used today are not IE6 friendly.
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Jesus
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Quoting Marc Smith:
"ALL of the data that is out there points against developing ANY kind of site that "bends to" the needs IE6 has."
I'm not flaming, but this is incorrect. Here are five sources randomly selected stating otherwise - all from 2009 no less:
http://www.sitepoint.com/blogs/2009/04/07/support-for-ie6-its-all-about-accessibility/
http://simplebits.com/notebook/2009/02/13/iegone.html
http://blog.sephone.com/2009/01/27/internet-explorer-6-support/
"Every Fortune 500 company builds their sites to the widest user base and the browsers being used."
Wal-Mart, General Motors, and Amazon.com are three prominent examples of Fortune 500 companies still supporting IE6. Again, just randomly selected from the first page of Google search results.
"doing ANY research at all will tell you that NO credible design house or web development group looks at IE6 when they develop their sites."
3 more Google first page picks:
http://www.rockettheme.com/
http://www.studiopress.com/ (Formerly Revolution)
http://www.joomlatd.com/
"The ONLY reason IE6 is..."
I think you're using too many absolutes, and they crush your argument. Again, not flaming. I personally dislike IE6, but the fact is there are still people using it. I'm not saying it's necessary to cater to these folks; I'm only saying they exist.
To Annoyed:
As my links above show quite clearly, IE6 compatibility is not a problem for Joomla - I would hope that the individual claiming that "knocking a piece of software" without proper knowledge is avoiding the ugly irony of doing just that in regard to Joomla.
You had no technical explanation for the Joomla issue in your post; I'm dying to see if you can actually provide one, or if you're just talking out the wazoo! Again, no flaming intended, just humor and a desire to playfully call you out.
Respectfully,
Jesus
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rowgy
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IE6 is dead ... Think about Google Chrome and new technologies behind Firefox /IE8...
May be people should find a way to make auto upgrade to those use IE6 now. 
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Marty
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Wasting time for IE6 is just that, wasting time. The more you coddle non-compliant browsers and users the worse the web is. Focus on usability, accessibility, SEO, etc. Not crappy out-of date browsers.
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Jesus
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Marty, I know hundreds of families in third world countries using donated second-hand U.S. government PCs who are grateful for continued IE6 support.
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TonyP
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Personally, Id rather see development resources spent on adding cool new features than supporting broken browsers.
By this point in the life if IE6, I expect that anyone who uses it on a day to day basis is used to not seeing content the way its supposed to be.
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Jesus
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The best solution would be "all of the above," TonyP.
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Patricia
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Quote jermey:
I'm actually waiting on purchasing the product due to the fact the templates won't run correctly in IE 6 causing lock ups, and slow performance. This seems to be a issue with everyone using the product as well.<br><br>
......
Please correct this issue, cause I love the product!
Or IE7 or IE8... the css on the menus is all messed up, and I have to pay my guy to fix each and every one.
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Jesus
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For what it's worth, I have not seen any errors with IE7 or IE8. Please explain, Patricia.
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Annoyed
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What part of "IE6 is not CSS saavy" doesn't make sense?
Seriously, if you are going to work in the space, then you need to KNOW the space you work in.
Any site that supports IE6 and newer CSS standards does so thru LOTS of hacks, custom code and smoke and mirrors. It doesn't come from ONE piece of source code that works with all browsers. It comes from multiple pieces or source code utilizing scripts, CSS hacks and years of knowledge (and staffs of webmasters who want nothing more to do with IE6).
For $150, you want it to be compatible with everything on the market all at once, and out of the box, and not have to know an ounce of code?
Do us all a favor, stop calling yourselves web designers and web masters and use the appropriate name (or more accurately - description)
LAZY
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Jesus
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Actually, Annoyed, IE6 support doesn't necessarily require many hacks at all. I get the feeling you don't really know what you're talking about, especially considering all of your statements are extremely broad and non-specific.
As always, I say that with utmost respect.
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Jesus
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Annoyed,
One more thing: please realize that you're calling people lazy (with little justification, since many of us here are professionals and therefore have no problem modifying Artisteer templates to work well with IE6) - yet you've made no effort to address the original request for a technical explanation to back up your words.
You have had over a month to study up, but all we've seen are bitter responses attacking people. Wouldn't it be easier just to prove your point?
If you know what you're talking about, the answer is yes.
I have a feeling you don't. Please prove me wrong... It should only take a second. There's no excuse not to!
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