Handheld devices

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Posted: 9/18/2009 Quote message   

Some QuickerSite users would like CSS for handheld devices:

<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" media="handheld" href="mobile.css" />

It would be great if Artisteer templates could ship with a version for handheld computers.

Posted: 9/20/2009 Quote message   

No one? Really?

Go to http://www.opera.com/mini/demo/ . Opera mini is the most popular mobile browser.

Type in the url of your Artisteer site.... UC the problem? Everything is messed up. Big trouble.

A solution for this is really needed. I have modified my CMS to recognize mobile browsers. I do not offer Artisteer templates in this case. Check out www.quickersite.com

Posted: 9/20/2009 Quote message   

Pieter, although I'm not a developer of Artisteer, I think I can give you an answer. Or rather, ask a few questions.
1, Can you name any web layout designer app that's specialised for handhelds? Ever wondered why there isn't many? (Well, none I actually know of.)
2, Can we really talk about layout, when it's 240 or 320 px wide? Most of the big sites I know supporting handhelds display a rather simplified layout. This simpified layout lacks most of the elements that's really Artisteer's main aim. It's like complaining about the icon-editing functions of Photoshop. :D

I'm the owner and user of a Nokia smartphone (240x320 px display) and a PocketLoox 560 (640x480). They don't support Ajax, higher version Flash, slow on JS, and cannot handle large, long, media-rich pages. Reading portals (Artisteers base layout-type...) on a smartphone or on a PDA is... well, uncomfortable to say the least... There are services I like using on the web on my handhelds, like checking train timetables, cinema-schedules and such, but I'd never visit a portal to read the news, I read them via RSS-readers.
To be honest, on the PDA, I tried Opera, Skyfire, Netfront, Ferret and came back to PIE. Why? I know, all of them has their own advantages, but all those extra gadges they have, they use a lot of resources, CPU time, memory, screen space. On the Nokia I use the built-in browser (not Opera) and works fine. Sometimes I see webpages, created for handhelds, simple, nice and usable, sometimes I see pages mimicing screen layouts and they're useless...

So the idea is interesting, but I think handhelds simply did not reach the level, where it's worth using even simplified Artisteer templates. IHMO, of course.

Posted: 9/20/2009 Quote message   

Tigrincs, I guess for the Artisteer guys it should not be too complicated to provide a cut-down version of the main template. It should not contain heavy background images and focus mainly on the article, and not on banners and menus.

I am not a designer. So for www.quickersite.com, i used Artisteer. But for the mobile version on http://www.quickersite.com/r/?pageAction=mobile - i'd love to use a similar layout, with some lightweight buttons (home-sitemap-search). It's true that I can probably create something myself. But it will never look as good as the main site made with Artisteer.

For me it would be selling point for QuickerSite ;-) nothing less nothing more. And it would be a selling point for Artisteer as well.


Posted: 9/21/2009 Quote message   

and don't forget: messed up templates on mobile devices, CAN be a reason NOT to buy Artisteer... just my 2cents...

Posted: 9/21/2009 Quote message   

Quote Pieter:

and don't forget: messed up templates on mobile devices, CAN be a reason NOT to buy Artisteer... just my 2cents...

:D Did you really mean that?
What alternative do you have for editing layouts for handhelds other than DW or notepad? :)S

Posted: 12/25/2009 Quote message   

Getting it to work on handhelds would be a great start.

I have now done 3 sites using artisteer. When I view them on my blackberry storm I get a blank page.

Any suggestions on why this is? A fix would be even better thanks

Posted: 1/20/2010 Quote message   

Actually there are plenty of sites that do this. Launch news.com on your handheld and you will see a trimmed version. Also there are a lot of sites like Engadget and Tuaw that created iPhone app-based versions of their site that are not much more than trimmed down website templates.

I would very much like Artisteer to provide an interface to create a trimmed version of the template as well.

Posted: 1/21/2010 Quote message   

If you use Wordpress then you can install "WPTouch" plugin : it transform your website for mobile viewing.

You can look at my website with an iphone/Android etc... look here : www.informagiciens.fr

Just try it !

Posted: 2/3/2010 Quote message   


I am interested in this topic as i am looking to do the same. Now i havent tried this but will when i get time. (fiy - i am actually writing this first thing in the morning from my bed on my nokia e71 mobile phone. As with most people, i often have ideas that pop into my head when i am in bed. Being able to reasearch these ideas on my mobile is very handy. Using the web on mobile hasnt taken off yet because us web developers have not embrased it fully yet. Alot put it in the too hard basket to optimise a version of our websites for mobile viewing. I believe that we should make it more user friendly and people will start to surf the net on their mobile. Instead, it is as if we are waiting for demand first before offering this service.)

Ok, so i was thinking it would be possible to create a separate very simple website template to display content on a mobile in artisteer. It is not enough just to have a separate css style sheet as the index.html index page needs to be different as well. Following are some example settings:

- sheet width: 320 px
- header image: small logo image
- layout: single coloumn
- menu: at the moment a small horizontal. Will be interesting to see how the vertical menus look in 2.4. a vertical menu may be more appropriate.

Now im pretty sure there is a component (im referring to joomla) to detect a users browser and direct them to the appropiate template.

As i said i have not tried this. I might today if i get the chance and let u know how it goes.


Posted: 2/4/2010 Quote message   

Hmmm, to me html combined with css for layout should be INDEPENDENT of the platform that they are displayed on. That's the whole idea of html (et al) is it not?

Weather it works or not is a different discussion, but that is what standards are for. If a website is build to the XHTML standard then as far as I'm conerned it should both work (on what ever) and be future proof.

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator (etc)

If the page is correctly coded (as the code that Artisteer produces appears to be so) then to me if it is not then displayed correctly then it is the fault of the program used to view it....

Just my 2p's worth

Posted: 3/11/2010 Quote message   

I own a small financial services business. I'm a user of websites not a developer. Because of an interest (challenge) and to minimise initial cost I chose to develop my business website (www.soluzions.com.au) in Joomla and purchased Artisteer to design the template etc - eventually i will get one of the professionals to spruce it up but for now its fine and Joomla gives me most of the tools I need to manage the site fairly efficiently.
I also recently acquired an iPhone which I had considered a bit of a gimmick. It has opened my eyes to the opportunities.
IMHO mobile computing is the way of the future. Complex pretty websites will have a place but people will want to browse for information etc. and get it when and where they want it - the pretty stuff they can look at when they have a bigger screen. Because of this some mobile template capability if it could be built into Artisteer is a necessity not an option.

Posted: 3/12/2010 Quote message   

Chris, why bother, you'll buy an iPad anyway... :D
Artisteer is a layout designer for common webpages, not for mobile devices. Right now there is no other layouter as simple as this, and so far there is none for mobile. Why? Because it's a completely different approach. For example, if you want a layout specifically for mobile devices, you have to think the whole navigation over. If you design for touchscreen use, the non-touchscreen PDA/mobile users will be mad. If you design for the dumbest mobile devices, iPhone owners will rage for the simple interface... Also, what size of images to use? Typography? Accessibility? Think about these! All the mobile capable designs you see is either converted by a script or handmade by paid designers. I guess you don't want to hire a designer, so you might check this out:
or this
Still not good enough? Consider hiring a designer! Honestly.

Posted: 3/21/2010 Quote message   

Quote Tigrincs:

Still not good enough? Consider hiring a designer! Honestly.

First off I did hire a designer, The Artisteer Team. Secondly you are starting to sound like Microsoft and instead of listening to your customers you are telling your customers how they should develop their web site.

Artisteer is a wonderful product but by my clients are telling me they want their sites to be compatible with mobile devices. I have no choice but to listen to my clients. Anyone from the Artisteer Team listening in?


Posted: 3/23/2010 Quote message   

Quote :
why bother, you'll buy an iPad anyway...

Why should I buy an iPad, I'd prefer to access stuff mobile on one device and need my PC for work - I dont want more gadgets!

Quote :
Consider hiring a designer!

I may one day but at this stage have enough interest to use available tools to produce a functional website with "content". On small screens its about content, not "pretties" - the content needs to be accessable. This is the issue and if Artisteer is not suitable then perhaps other options need to be considered.

I found these guys in my search, a bit clunky (its relatively new) and I am still trying to tweak it but it does seem to work: http://www.osmobi.com

Tigrincs, perhaps you should also read this article which was passed to me by a collegue who works in the mobile space: http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheNextBigThing/~3/2_KVdU_66KQ/platform-shifts-mainframe-to-mini-to-pc-to-mobile-why-leaders-fail-to-make-the-shift.html - worth at least considering.

Posted: 5/3/2010 Quote message   

Its always said when you come to these company sponsored forums and don't see any participation from the company. This is a very legitimate customer need being voiced and at least some comment by Artiseer should be made. Its only good PR to do so, and might mean the difference in sales too.

Posted: 5/3/2010 Quote message   

That should have been "It's always sad..."
Michael Garofalo

Posted: 5/4/2010 Quote message   

Actually, Artisteer is fairly amazing for making mobile templates. I used Artisteer to create a template for one of my online games... Photics: Conquest ...which was mainly created for Android users...


There are two main problems that I see when viewing Artisteer templates on mobile phones.

1) The smallest width possible is 500 pixels. That's just 20 pixels away from being ideal. Android and iPhone and iPod touch screens are (generally) 480 pixels wide in landscape mode. It's disappointing that I cannot set the artisteer template to 480 pixels.

2) When viewing my site... http://photics.com ...with the iPhone, I see lines along the seams of the 9-Patch.

Those two issues should be easy to fix. I've been waiting to see if Artisteer fixes it, but so far the latest updates haven't been that exciting to me. I think that web development for mobile phones is very important to consider.
Michael Garifaki

Posted: 5/4/2010 Quote message   

Actually, that last post should say "iPod Touch" ...as I don't have an iPhone. I imagine that the 9-Patch seam error would be the same though.
Michael Garofalo

Posted: 5/4/2010 Quote message   

Ha... wow... I couldn't even spell my name right in the last post. :-P

...but I think you should be able to get the right idea. :-D

Posted: 8/18/2010 Quote message   

Ideally it would work like this (from a Joomla perspective).

When you choose to export you would have an option to also export a mobile version(s) of the template (maybe a list of mobile types to check off).

This would create a version of the template with minimal module calls maybe a preview as well. How you implement it from there is up to you.

Posted: 8/21/2010 Quote message   

I think it is a good idea if a compatible mobile theme would be (or could be) exported with the theme - at the time you are exporting your Drupal, WordPress or Joomla template - but the issue is really more complex than just a theme.

I have done quite a bit of research on Drupal's site, regarding mobile themes. The CMS itself needs to detect the mobile device to begin with. There are modules for Drupal that will handle this. And some of the modules get very specific, to the actual device being used.

Has anyone really looked at a site with a mobile template/theme? Not much to it's appearance, really. There is just simply not much space to have a fancy layout and graphics. You need to boil the site down to really basic sections and text, with greatly modified images.

As to Pieter, I have accessed my Aristeer designed templates - which are running on Wordpress software - through the web tool that Opera offers. I did that long before seeing this thread. They looked just fine, quite honestly. It has a lot to do with the technology that is being used to view the site really. With Opera Mini, you can zoom in and zoom out on the site. So, what's the problem?

I think Pieter is just using this as an opportunity to bring attention to his paid CMS. Seems to be a bit of a troller, based on what I see throughout the forums here. Sick.

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